Chat – October 18, 2003
Warning: This chat contains at least one spoiler. Members of the Forum are already familiar with it, but others may not be. Read at your own risk.
Thanks to Dai Wakizashi for recording our chat with his network sniffer. Thanks to Terry Steyaert for moderating. And thanks to Leja Azerty for cleaning and formatting the chat log. - Nick
<nick_scipio> anyway, who wants to volunteer to take questions via PM and then "feed" them to me?
<tiganese> my pm doesnt work, sorry
<dai_wakizashi> well a warning before you get hot.. I'm doing a capture via network sniff. if there's an objection I will stop!!!
<steyaert> I can do it, although some people were having problems with PM.
<gmwylie85260> <----kicks strick under the table
<steyaert> I hope you have luck capturing it.
<nick_scipio> basic ground "rules" would be you send questions to the Mod (via PM), and then follow-ups in the channel
<tiganese> picks up stick, hey who poked me
<nick_scipio> (that's fine, Dai)
<dai_wakizashi> until my computer crashes that should work
<nick_scipio> anyway, let the Mod accum. Qs and then post them as I answer the previous one...
<nick_scipio> like I said, post follow-ups in the channel, but keep the "chip shot" comments to a minimum (if possible)
<nick_scipio> does everyone like that?
<strickland83> I have to leave to take care of a problem. I'll be back in 20 minutes and I'll stay online so I can catch up when I return.
<tiganese> works for me
<leja_azerty> no pb with that
<steyaert> Works for me, although I'm probably leavng at 4:00 or so.
<darkvision29> I'm new here so I'll just follow the crowd
<nick_scipio> so... who wants to volunteer to Mod and take Qs? I think you should just open a NotePad window and cut and paste...
<gmwylie85260> ok...who's mod?
<strickland83> I can take over for Terry when he leaves.
<nick_scipio> Terry mod first half, Strick mod second?
<steyaert> attribute questions to asker? Or anonymous askers?
<tiganese> keeps preasure off one person
<nick_scipio> attrib, if possible
<steyaert> OK, any questions out there?
<nick_scipio> To PM, simply double-click the Mod (Terry) in the "Chatters" window to the right.
<steyaert> I wonder if I'm going to have 15 PM windows open or just one???
<dai_wakizashi> <dai looks behind> nope not me
<nick_scipio> prolly 15.
<nick_scipio> or, 12 at least... ;-)
<tiganese> no, my pm dont work, just 14
<gmwylie85260> probably not a good idea to leave them open once the question is asked
<nick_scipio> Or do you all have definite questions in mind?
<steyaert> You can't cut and past from chat windows....
<steyaert> Stickland: Have any characters besides Stacy started out as background and become more important?
<steyaert> (Typos will be mine due to lack of cut and past and speed considerations.)
<nick_scipio> Believe it or not, Kendall wasn't supposed to be such a big character.
<nick_scipio> she grew in the telling.
<nick_scipio> She was still based on my ex gf, but was supposed to be a foil.
<nick_scipio> I liked the Kendall that emerged, and she got a much bigger role...
<nick_scipio> hence, the change in B3's title to "Kendall"
<nick_scipio> others... <thinkin>
<tiganese> I'm gonna need a drink after that one
<nick_scipio> actually, a lot of this story has been very... organic.
<dai_wakizashi> any characters introduced in the last 2 chapters, are they also minor
<steyaert> Dai: Were the minor characters introduced in the last two chapters?
<nick_scipio> Were they what?
<nick_scipio> oh, were they minor?
<nick_scipio> Some were, some weren't.
<nick_scipio> You'll see a few of them in B3, but not all.
<dai_wakizashi> <wheels turning> ?
<nick_scipio> incidental characters from Paul's HS, probably not...
<tphile2> chat started already?
<steyaert> Gina: Do you have touble with the story moving away from you, like what happened with Kendall?
<nick_scipio> characters from camp or from UT, you'll probably see...
<steyaert> Yes, Tphile. Send your questions to me as a PM and I'll post them.
<steyaert> Wondering how I know when Nick is done with one.....
<nick_scipio> Trouble? not really, but in a way, yes.
<nick_scipio> I'll tell you, Terry.
<nick_scipio> I'll say something like "Next Q"
<steyaert> Great by me.
<nick_scipio> Anyway, back to Gina's Q...
<tphile2> Dai some were minor some were aldults ;)
<nick_scipio> Do I have trouble with the story moving away from me?
<nick_scipio> Yes and no.
<nick_scipio> From the beginning, I've known where Paul will end up, and with whom.
<nick_scipio> But HOW he gets there is the fun part.
<nick_scipio> It's fun for me because I don't know exactly how it will happen.
<nick_scipio> So it's fun for you too, because you get to discover it with me.
<nick_scipio> I think that's some of the "magic" of the story... I share your sense of wonder, and I think that comes through in the writing.
<nick_scipio> So yes, it sometimes gets away from me, in that a river sometimes branches.
<nick_scipio> But no, this river will still reach the sea, right where I intended it to all along.
<dai_wakizashi> I thought you had plotted the course from beginning to end
<nick_scipio> I hope that answers your question.
<tphile2> like the macrochapters?
<gmwylie85260> yes, thanks...
<nick_scipio> Yes, I plotted the destination... but not the course.
<nick_scipio> and there ARE some events that are exactly as I planned them from the beginning.
<nick_scipio> but I try to get inside each characters head and "let them be themselves"
<nick_scipio> they're more natural that way, and more fun (I think)
<nick_scipio> next Q.
<steyaert> Leja: What do you do in preperation before writing a story? (In general, not just SC.)
<nick_scipio> I think about it... a LOT.
<tphile2> When does Susan get pregnant with Pauls love child ? ;)
<nick_scipio> Before actually _writing_ the story, I'll do the background.
<pics5222> i've heard that said before, but since tall the characters are of your mind how that be
<nick_scipio> For instance, I will come up with where Paul and fam. have lived, when, etc.
<nick_scipio> and I'll come up with character traits and motivations.
<nick_scipio> then I'll give them personalities.
<nick_scipio> sometimes, in prep., I'll actually "write" dialog in my head.
<nick_scipio> have you ever had a conversation with yourself, in front of the bathroom mirror?
<nick_scipio> it's a lot like that.
<dai_wakizashi> follow up: do you have specific junction points set in stone, even though the route is somewhat dynamically determined as you write along?
<nick_scipio> once I get the background roughed in, I'll actually outline the story.
<nick_scipio> Yes, Dai, I do.
<nick_scipio> For instance:
<nick_scipio> The scene with P-G-K, the first time K is with P, at the top of the falls.
<nick_scipio> that was plotted WELL before B2 even began.
<nick_scipio> The scene where K's mom catches her and Paul, too.
<nick_scipio> (although that one is based on real life... ;-))
<dai_wakizashi> how come K is foil than or how did your charcater "run away"
<nick_scipio> K wasn't planned to be as big as she is...
<nick_scipio> but once I "got to know her," she grew in the telling.
<nick_scipio> I like the result... I like the girl.
<dai_wakizashi> no wonder
<nick_scipio> when a character "runs away" from me, it's usually because I get to know them better.
<tphile2> but not as much as Gina
<nick_scipio> and I "like" them... so they get a bigger part.
<nick_scipio> I think it makes for good reading, and realisitic characters, because they're not wooden "set-pieces"
<nick_scipio> make sense?
<nick_scipio> other follow-ups?
<tiganese> After makeing a part bigger have you ever regreted it?
<darkvision29> (gears turning) Yes
<dai_wakizashi> how do you manage to jkeep the character stay true their profile
<nick_scipio> No, I haven't regretted making a part bigger.
<nick_scipio> I regret telling the Forum (definitively) that Kendall won't be the wife... but not much else.
<nick_scipio> Dai's still gonna worry me to death with those Two Words, but no, I don't regret anything.
<gmwylie85260> fibs are cool
<nick_scipio> dai's Q...
<steyaert> Dai: Do we get to see Stacy? Or will we hear from a third party? (i.e. Stacy served her purpose and is out of the picture?)
<dai_wakizashi> how about "so young" (u don't have to answer.. just yanking your chain)
<nick_scipio> How do I make chars. stay "true."
<tphile2> so there is a reason to worry over "so young" ;)
<nick_scipio> I "know" them, I know what they would and wouldn't do... so I try to stay true to them.
<steyaert> Sorry, I'll repeat the one I put in....
<dai_wakizashi> go tp
<nick_scipio> Stacy isn't completely out of the picture... but she's got her own life.
<nick_scipio> next Q?
<dai_wakizashi> follow up on staying true
<nick_scipio> what's the follow-up?
<dai_wakizashi> how come a character doesn't change their mind later about a person
<nick_scipio> oh, they do.
<nick_scipio> You see Paul change his mind about Jenny.
<nick_scipio> And you've seen Paul change his mind about Gina.
<nick_scipio> Kendall, too.
<nick_scipio> At first, he thought Kendall was a Goddess, nothing more.
<tphile2> relax Dai Nick already revealed who died ;)
<dai_wakizashi> the reason i ask is i am facing a problem when writing suddenly the tale goes somewhere else than I planned
<nick_scipio> Now, he knows she's human too...
<nick_scipio> don't worry about that, Dai...
<nick_scipio> stay true to the STORY, and the characters.
<nick_scipio> the plot is the LAST thing you should worry about...
<nick_scipio> a recommendation for you:
<nick_scipio> Buy Steven King's "On Writing"
<nick_scipio> I'm reading it now, and I find myself nodding my head a lot.
<dai_wakizashi> i'll do that
<nick_scipio> it's really simply confirming a lot that I already do, but it' giving me good insight into WHY I should do it.
<tiganese> Oson Scott Card wrote a good book on writeing also
<nick_scipio> and, truth be told, it's giving me some good advice.
<nick_scipio> I've heard about OSC's book, but not read it yet.
<nick_scipio> thanks for the tip.
<nick_scipio> anyway... next q?
<pics5222> why did you put the mother-son incest angle in the story and then drop it like a hot potato
<steyaert> One note, there is only one question in the queue. Most of the time the queue is empty. It has peaked at two.
<dai_wakizashi> aahh man.. pics. good q.
<steyaert> Want to answer pics, then I'll post my one question in the queue.
<nick_scipio> I have't really dropped it, it's still "out there," but the characters aren't ACTING on their impulses.
<nick_scipio> it's something Paul had to deal with.
<nick_scipio> there will probably be more incest, it's "natural"
<nick_scipio> but what's MORE natural is a parent wanting to protect their child.
<nick_scipio> so you have an internal struggle with the issue.
<nick_scipio> does that make sense?
<dai_wakizashi> especially the encounter he had with susan after on the subject.. i was great learning experience
<tphile2> pics the macrochapters dropped a LOT of things like a hot potato mostly to clear the board imho
<nick_scipio> I'd agree, tphile...
<nick_scipio> some things I HAD to get out of the way...
<tiganese> have you ever stopped writing a scene because it might not sit comfortably with most of your readers
<nick_scipio> college is a MAJOR change in a person's life.
<nick_scipio> tig, no.
<nick_scipio> I don't write for the readers, I write for the story and the characters.
<tphile2> Nick I just think clearing the board had mixed results and created a lot of unintended consequences
<nick_scipio> I did go through two drafts of B1 ch13, tho.
<darkvision29> Thanks Nick, that's great advise
<nick_scipio> how so, tphile?
<dai_wakizashi> why because of the cliff hanger
<nick_scipio> (no, Dai, because of something else... something that's no longer relevant... basically, I wasn't staying true to the characters.)
<nick_scipio> <hoping tphile's typing>
<dai_wakizashi> kara was going to break the agreement with gina?
<tphile2> Nick that would be a long answer and not really good to deal with in this chat
<nick_scipio> (something I'm not going to tell you, Dai... sorry)
<nick_scipio> tphile, fair enough... send me e-mail then...
<nick_scipio> FWIW, I'm in the process of revising and expanding 31-32.
<dai_wakizashi> ummm will you tell it later inthe coming books or afterwards
<nick_scipio> I'm going back over it with a less burned-out eye, and adding things (removing a few too, but nothing substantial)
<tphile2> but it was covered in some of the criticisms over those chapters the sudden wealth etc
<nick_scipio> sudden wealth?
<dai_wakizashi> reason i ask is, it gives an insight into what the writer thinks and makes decisions... it is interesting
<tphile2> burned out eye? did you get semen in it?
<nick_scipio> no, it was open for nine months straight. ;-)
<nick_scipio> the "sudden wealth" of the Coulters is right there in the story...
<nick_scipio> first, they had the proceeds from the sale of their house in Charleston.
<nick_scipio> second, Chris got a GREAT job with a certain unnamed 24-hour news station in Atlanta.
<nick_scipio> they were already upper middle-class...
<steyaert> Which would probably pay some relocating expenses if not all of them....
<nick_scipio> now they're just a little better off.
<nick_scipio> as for Paul's family...
<nick_scipio> trust me, airline pilots make good money.
<tiganese> and planes aren't that expensive, at least not used ones
<nick_scipio> Paul's fther has been flying for another certain unnamed Atlanta-based airline for long enough that he' off the "B" scale pay grade.
<nick_scipio> planes really AREN'T all that expensive... to buy... the expense is in their upkeep.
<pics5222> i've know a couple of airline pilots and i know a couple of people that have small planes and Nick you are right on both accounts
<nick_scipio> so I don't think there's an _unexplained_ wealth in the macro chapters
<nick_scipio> I learned to fly in my family's airplane...
<nick_scipio> anyway... where were we?
<nick_scipio> next q?
<steyaert> Dai: Which character is most closest to your heart or favorite?
<nick_scipio> oooooooh, good question.
<nick_scipio> Paul, probably...
<nick_scipio> but there's more...
<tphile2> heart? or another organ?
<nick_scipio> I put a little piece of myself in EVERY charact.
<nick_scipio> Susan's good advice is me... a lot of it is pure me.
<nick_scipio> her bad advice is someone else, of course, but... ;-)
<nick_scipio> my favorite non-Paul character?
<nick_scipio> right now, Kendall.
<nick_scipio> But Gina's a close second.
<tiganese> yeah, Kendall
<nick_scipio> I love them all...
<dai_wakizashi> what about amy
<nick_scipio> except Emmett Carstairs...
<nick_scipio> the arrogant prick.
<nick_scipio> and the Zachary bros, of course.
<nick_scipio> but even THEY have redeeming features.
<nick_scipio> do I like Amy?
<nick_scipio> yes, very much.
<tphile2> Amy is history
<nick_scipio> do I like Becky L.? what do you think?
<nick_scipio> next q?
<tiganese> I always thought of Amy as to nieve for Paul
<steyaert> Gina: Do you find writing the longer pieces helps or hurts your ability to do a shorter work?
<nick_scipio> another good question...
<nick_scipio> I can still do flash, and I think I do it well, but...
<nick_scipio> I really get "into" my characters, so it's probably actually hurt my ability to do shorter pieces...
<dai_wakizashi> u've invested in a huge an rich universe...?
<nick_scipio> exactly, dai...
<dai_wakizashi> better for us
<tiganese> was the opposite true?
<nick_scipio> I think I can still write a short story, but we'll have to wait and see. ;-)
<gmwylie85260> <nods> a big headache for me too
<nick_scipio> was the opposite of what true, tig?
<steyaert> I think does the short work hurt the long work?
<dai_wakizashi> but one disadvanatge may be you'll be recgnized for one type like actors sometimes have ... typecasting issue
<nick_scipio> I don't think so...
<tiganese> Did writing the short pieces help with writing the longer ones
<nick_scipio> yes, tig.
<nick_scipio> short pieces are VERY good exercise...
<nick_scipio> it's like running a marathon...
<nick_scipio> you don't start off running 26 miles.
<nick_scipio> short pieces are good to develop skills.
<dai_wakizashi> aahh come o you are very good with 100 yeards dash as well
<nick_scipio> look at "Fanning the Flames" for one of my writing exercises.
<nick_scipio> well, thank you, Dia, I think so too... but it's the 1600m where I don't write much.
<dai_wakizashi> i don't think they stay in mind that long (1600 m)... it's either the shorties or the really long ones
<nick_scipio> jumping back to dai's "typecasting" issue.
<nick_scipio> I do think I'm typecast...
<nick_scipio> a little.
<nick_scipio> I think there are two different audiences, tho...
<nick_scipio> the people who like the JC stories are often not the same people who like SC...
<nick_scipio> fortunately, I can appeal to both, I think, but it's tough...
<nick_scipio> I'm sure I'll survive.
<tphile2> thats because you haven't written enough variety
<dai_wakizashi> but it is apples and oranges, western and comedy...
<nick_scipio> true, tphile.
<nick_scipio> short stories give varity MUCH quicker than long ones.
<tiganese> Feeling abit like Mr. S King?
<nick_scipio> I wish...
<nick_scipio> His short stories are usually BRILLIANT.
<nick_scipio> I love them.
<nick_scipio> but I don't read his longer stories
<nick_scipio> a) because I don't like the genre
<tphile2> don't be King is not that great a writer
<nick_scipio> but b) because they're... pulp (IMO)
<tiganese> Ah, but one of the resons he quit is because of the typecasting
<gmwylie85260> king's audience thinks he is
<nick_scipio> King is actually pretty good...
<nick_scipio> King is good like Eminem is good...
<dai_wakizashi> well I haven't read his short stories, but my favorite had always been IT and langoliers
<nick_scipio> I don't like either, but I recognize talent.
<nick_scipio> read King's short stories...
<nick_scipio> some of my favorite movies are based on King short stories...
<tphile2> King takes ten pages to say what other good writers can say in one quantity is not always quality
<nick_scipio> the same can be said of me, tphile... ;-)
<tphile2> thats not my impression
<nick_scipio> or, as Josef Stalin used to say, "quantity has a quality all its own"
<dai_wakizashi> i dunno.. referring to IT, the childhood scares/nitemares and how children deal with it, and how adults don't see the world with children's eyes, and so being more terrorized as an adult was a fascinating way to tell the story
<steyaert> The queue is building up. Shall we go on?
<nick_scipio> well, thank you, but I AM a bit windy.
<nick_scipio> probably should, terry... thanks...
<nick_scipio> next q?
<steyaert> Dai: Do we get to hear about Susan's early years? (Greg and the other young couple and her meeting Jack in college and the aftermath with Greg?)
<tphile2> Tommyknockers is an ordeal I am still trying to forget
<nick_scipio> Yes, dai, but not in the main SC story.
<dai_wakizashi> tp <dai nods>
<dai_wakizashi> ohh that's good Nick
<nick_scipio> next q?
<dai_wakizashi> but may be bad for sc, probly susan is dead ;-)
<steyaert> Dai: You made some comments in your posts, about certain things like, regretting some things you have said and other cryptic comments. Will you please keep them marked and later come back and enlighten us? It is pretty interesting to have a look at the background.
<tphile2> another SC short?
<tphile2> Dai they all are gonna die eventually
<nick_scipio> Dai, background is often just that... BACKground.
<nick_scipio> It's not the story.
<nick_scipio> So, sadly, some things will STAY in the background.
<nick_scipio> other things won't, but many will.
<dai_wakizashi> ahh but as much as the puzzles of sc, those were fascinating puzzles
<nick_scipio> they trick is to know enough background to tell the story, but not overwhelm the reader with minutia...
<tphile2> but one thing I want to read is a sixty something Susan still having a romantic b and b with Paul
<dai_wakizashi> umm. i was refferring to what two words you regretted and why.
<dai_wakizashi> would like to hear about that when the time is right
<nick_scipio> You know the two, Dai... and you know why... ;-)
<nick_scipio> but, in the end, it'll all make sense...
<nick_scipio> no worries.
<nick_scipio> mostly, I was teasing you (Dai) about worrying me to death over "so young"
<dai_wakizashi> really??? ;-)
<nick_scipio> tphile pokes fun at me, I poke fun at you... blame tphile... ;-)
<dai_wakizashi> himm tphile...
<tphile2> DAI wasn't the only one we helped too
<dai_wakizashi> iwhat do you mean tp
<nick_scipio> (I love emoticons)
<tiganese> Dai was just the most prolific
<dai_wakizashi> and the worst
<nick_scipio> Dai, one day I'm going to ask you HOW you sit down and pound out some of your treatises... ;-)
<tphile2> others nag him over "so young" myself and Frank for one
<tiganese> just because i joined later
<nick_scipio> okay... moving along... ;-)
<steyaert> Ready for the next?
<nick_scipio> next q?
<steyaert> Tphile: Nick, what themes are you wanting to address with SC?
<nick_scipio> ooooh, another good one...
<nick_scipio> Good vs. Evil?
<nick_scipio> Actually, the basic themes are already there...
<nick_scipio> responsibility, making good choices, being thoughtful...
<tphile2> and its easier to poke fun at Nick and not a stick ;)
<nick_scipio> not treating people like objects, etc.
<nick_scipio> SC didn't start out as an allegory...
<nick_scipio> but I'm too much of a moralist (full of myself?) not to preach a little.
<tphile2> an insiders look at a nudist camp?
<nick_scipio> not really, no...
<nick_scipio> although you've certainly gotten that...
<nick_scipio> it really did start out as a "what if" fantasy.
<nick_scipio> and BOY, did it grow!
<tphile2> polyamory and the mentor lover?
<nick_scipio> something like that...
<tiganese> did it, I haven't noticed
<nick_scipio> it didn't start out as polyamory...
<tphile2> nostalgia for the seventies?
<nick_scipio> but it's more about swinging than polyamory...
<nick_scipio> and it' definitely not nostalgia for the seventies...
<nick_scipio> I've had to do MORE research than you can imagine...
<nick_scipio> I'm a child of the 80s(!!!)
<nick_scipio> So I've had to do a LOT of research about 70s stuff...
<tphile2> yeah I know you didn't even mention JARTS ;P
<nick_scipio> hopefully, I've gotten a lot of it right. ;-)
<tiganese> I don't remember the seventies, how much of that is real, and how much is just what we think happend
<nick_scipio> next q?
<tphile2> mostly except for the idea of a Starwars True Grit double feature LOL
<nick_scipio> (that was my point, with the Double Feature... completely improbably lie)
<steyaert> Terry: How did you come up with the whole SC dream? How did you get your butt in gear to start writing it for all of us to enjoy?
<nick_scipio> that's a long answer...
<nick_scipio> in a nutshell...
<dai_wakizashi> 70s doesn't have much meaning for me personally... late 70's to mid late 80s was the period I got to see
<gmwylie85260> <---lived in small town washington; no such thing as improbable double features there
<nick_scipio> there was a woman from my real life, Susan's analog...
<nick_scipio> she taught me a lot, and gave me some really good advice, but we never had sex (much as I wanted to).
<nick_scipio> she gave me a LOT of blowjobs, but we never did more...
<dai_wakizashi> intergen issue?
<nick_scipio> so with SC, I was doing a "what if she HAD had sex with me" fantasy...
<nick_scipio> how did I get my butt in gear?
<nick_scipio> well, in August of 2002, I literally sat down and started outlining characters and chapters...
<nick_scipio> when I realized that I'd "outlined" about 30 pages, I started filling in the details.
<nick_scipio> the first six or seven chapters fairly flew from my fingers.
<nick_scipio> from there, I guess I got high on the feedback from StoriesOnline...
<nick_scipio> it really did come in droves...
<nick_scipio> I was jazzed on the attention, so I kept writing...
<nick_scipio> then I decided that I liked the characters, and I had the NEED to tell the story.
<nick_scipio> so I kept going.
<nick_scipio> okay, Dai... intergen issue?
<dai_wakizashi> no strike that it is too personal q. sorryu
<steyaert> Related from the queue: Strickland: How did you ever manage in book 1 posting two chapters a week?
<tphile2> So thats why Susan enjoys BJs so much
<nick_scipio> Strick, I have NO idea...
<darkvision29> Did you let the feedback influnce the direction of SC?
<nick_scipio> (yes, tphile)
<tiganese> Are you going to try to keep to the Monday deadline in the future, or let it flow more easily
<nick_scipio> hold up, let me answer those in order...
<steyaert> Want me to queue them?
<nick_scipio> I had a LOT of it already written by the time I started posting...
<nick_scipio> I'll be quick, terry... no need to Q
<nick_scipio> toward the end of B1, tho, I was just ahead of the posting...
<nick_scipio> okay, next Q from the channel...
<nick_scipio> Do I let feedback influence the direction of SC?
<nick_scipio> The direction of SC really has been set from the beginning...
<steyaert> Be honest, "the car must smell?"....
<nick_scipio> Well, let me rephrase...
<dai_wakizashi> why don't you the same thing for sc3 and sc4... in a way you suffer (and run the danger of a burn out), and we suffer as well! ;-)
<nick_scipio> Yes, I let feedback influence me (and I was thinking about the "car smell")
<nick_scipio> but it doesn' affect the story's OVERALL direction.
<nick_scipio> hold that though, Dai...
<tphile2> and the jewelry presents and the oranges
<nick_scipio> tig, I HOPE to keep to a Monday deadline for B3...
<nick_scipio> have those been major issues, tphile?
<nick_scipio> not really.
<nick_scipio> good suggestions, tho... and I thank you for them.
<nick_scipio> but look at it this way...
<tphile2> nah but I still want to know what kind of bauble kendalls has ;)
<nick_scipio> I get a LOT of "more mother-son incest" type feedback...
<nick_scipio> and I mean a LOT
<nick_scipio> but I get an almost-equal amount of "that kinda weirded me out, don't do that again" e-mail about the incest.
<nick_scipio> either way, it hasn't mattered...
<nick_scipio> the story has stayed true to the story.
<nick_scipio> next q?
<steyaert> Darkvision: Have you ever started a short work and had it develop into a longer story?
<dai_wakizashi> is it because the feedback and the weekly hits from the watchdogs in the forum and via e-mail are major boosts to keep on writing (personally I got the impression you want to tell the story)
<nick_scipio> the Jazz Club stories were really only a few encounters...
<nick_scipio> but I started to like the characters, and I started to "get inside their heads"
<tphile2> the more incest demans is inevitable since you opened the door on it but I think its a distraction and not a good idea
<nick_scipio> Kate Kirilov is _extraordinarily_ complex, and you all don't know 25% of her background...
<nick_scipio> I'd say you know only 10% of her background, and she's fascinating...
<nick_scipio> so yes, I've had a short work develop into a longer story...
<nick_scipio> heck, SC-B2 started OUT a shorter work, and mushroomed... ;-)
<nick_scipio> Dai's Q...
<nick_scipio> I want to tell the story.
<nick_scipio> but I also know I'm honing my skills... I want to be a pro writer some day...
<dai_wakizashi> but please don't burn yourself
<nick_scipio> but the feedback and the FOrum doesn't hurt.
<nick_scipio> it's very gratifying, but also can be frustrating and TIME-consuming.
<gmwylie85260> do you get more feedback from storiesonline or assm?
<nick_scipio> all in all, I guess I'm a natural-born storyteller...
<nick_scipio> Gina, I'd say it's a small difference...
<nick_scipio> probably ASSTR...
<nick_scipio> simply because I have more readers at ASSTR
<nick_scipio> the chapters get posted sooner on ASSTR, tho... so that might be some of it.
<nick_scipio> I still have a LOT of readers at SO.
<nick_scipio> I think it's something like 1500-2000 per chapter...
<nick_scipio> about 4000 hits per chapter at SO...
<nick_scipio> so I figure that's about 1500 readers...
<nick_scipio> hits at ASSTR are more like 12-18,000 hits per week.
<nick_scipio> well, that's for the last chapters...
<nick_scipio> say, 8-14,000 hits per week.
<nick_scipio> I figure that's about 3,000 readers...
<tphile2> anonamous feedback?
<nick_scipio> is that how much feedback I get?
<nick_scipio> elaborate, tphile...
<nick_scipio> for the people who joined us recently... Private Message (PM) Strickland with questions for the queue.
<nick_scipio> (are you typing, tphile?)
<steyaert> Actually, I'm still doing it.
<nick_scipio> k... PM Terry...
<steyaert> My leaving got canceled.
<tphile2> nick with the forum you know who is saying what but you complained about the anonymous stuff from sol
<nick_scipio> oh, I complain about the anon. stuff from both...
<nick_scipio> I get morons from both areas...
<nick_scipio> not many, but enough.
<nick_scipio> I like most anon feedback...
<nick_scipio> it's a vanishingly small percentage that gets me riled.
<nick_scipio> for instance...
<nick_scipio> Why am I reading Steven King's "On Writing"?
<nick_scipio> anonymous feedback that was actually very critical... it was constructive, but still critical
<dfwhobbyist> Does the weekly posting deadlines hurt your writing more versus waiting to write it all before posting the story all at once (the way professional writers would do)?
<tphile2> thats a very good question ;)
<nick_scipio> and, much as I hate to admit it, the criticism was right.
<nick_scipio> dfw... yes, I think it does.
<nick_scipio> or, more correctly, toward the end of B2, it did.
<nick_scipio> my goal for B3 is to have 8-10 chapters safely written and edited BEFORE I begin posting...
<tphile2> about how to put things in perspective?
<nick_scipio> regarding what, tphile?
<nick_scipio> the constructive criticism?
<dai_wakizashi> why not write most of the drafts, and revise them prior to a weekly posting. is it more work to reedit change based on feedback from e-mail or forum
<nick_scipio> no, the c/c was about something called "Swifties" and a few other things...
<nick_scipio> wait one...
<tphile2> so what was the ciriticism?
<nick_scipio> wait one...
<nick_scipio> I just posted it to the Forum...
<nick_scipio> you can read it later...
<nick_scipio> actually, it wasn't anon.
<nick_scipio> but because it WAS critical, I didn't answer it immediately...
<steyaert> Ready? Seven questions in the queue.
<nick_scipio> oooooh, yes, boss...
<nick_scipio> next q?
<steyaert> Strickland: How long was Summer Camp originally intended to be?
<nick_scipio> I dunno... <shrugs>
<nick_scipio> it's as long as it needs to be...
<dai_wakizashi> timewise (in Paul's time frame)
<nick_scipio> when I began, I really had NO idea of how many words or how long it would be.
<steyaert> So the four books isn't completely unexpected? (From me.)
<nick_scipio> now, I think it'll be about a million words and 4 books
<nick_scipio> no, it was always planned to be three books...
<nick_scipio> now, 3 is split and it's four.
<nick_scipio> next q?
<strickland83> So it was intended to be about as long, never a short story?
<steyaert> Strickland: When you were at the real Summer Camp, did you see any evidence of swinging - or was the swinging entirely fictional?
<nick_scipio> (never a short story)
<nick_scipio> the swinging is real...
<nick_scipio> but when I was there, I was 6 thru 10
<nick_scipio> so I was C-L-U-E-L-E-S-S
<nick_scipio> but talking to my mother (my mother is more and more frank, the older I get... uuuuugh!)
<nick_scipio> anyway, talking to my mother (and my father) it was going on a LOT.
<nick_scipio> when I got older, I figured out what they were up to...
<nick_scipio> and did my fair share of peeping...
<strickland83> Is Gina's interest in peeping somewhat autobiographical?
<nick_scipio> my experience with the real-life Susan-analog began at a swinging pool party my parents were hosting... (I was 14)
<tphile2> she was speaking from persanal experience?
<nick_scipio> Strickland: yes.
<nick_scipio> tphile: my mother? yes.
<steyaert> Dai: This is not related exactly to SC or Paul...but a general question derived from SC. How person X can resolve conflicts and other relational issues if he is in-love equally with Y and Z who return the love equally back? Any insights or is it "Read SC"?
<nick_scipio> (my parents never knew about my relationship with the Susan-analog)
<nick_scipio> hold on... let me take a moment and re-parse that question...
<nick_scipio> Dai, that question is one for the Forum...
<dai_wakizashi> k thx
<nick_scipio> it's a MUCH bigger discussion than we have time for here...
<nick_scipio> post it as a Q in the Forum, and I'll address it there (as, I hope, will MizPattay)
<nick_scipio> next q?
<steyaert> Tphile: Nick, will we get an advance reading of SC3's preamble?
<steyaert> Maybe that's too light a text color....
<dai_wakizashi> tp what r u up to
<steyaert> Tphile: Nick, will we get an advance reading of SC3's preamble?
<nick_scipio> tphile: yes... you'll get an advanced reading like you got an advanced look at B2...
<nick_scipio> probably a couple of weeks before "general" release...
<nick_scipio> after all, there's got to be SOME benefit to being a Forum member... ;-)
<nick_scipio> next q?
<steyaert> Strickland: Why haven't we heard any more about Gina's silver bracelet and Kendall's waist chain?
<dai_wakizashi> and we are chopped liver! ;-)
<tphile2> iirc I joined when book 2 was in progress ;(
<nick_scipio> Strickland... because I let YOU fill in the little details...
<dai_wakizashi> I don't want to pull rank here ... i withdraw y comment
<nick_scipio> you know the girls have them... they're JUST jewelry...
<nick_scipio> you haven't heard about Paul's chain either...
<strickland83> They are not critical to the plot, are they?
<nick_scipio> not any more than the '76 Corvette was...
<dai_wakizashi> going to the heart of the matter strick?
<nick_scipio> but, SSC#1... <eg>
<dfwhobbyist> But we all felt K's mom would have had SOMETHING to say about the way it pointed...
<mizpattay> I'm here - I made it just in time. Hello everyone!
<tphile2> none of the chains are chokers or a leash ;)
<nick_scipio> dfw: it's a gravity bauble...
<tiganese> hey mizpattay
<nick_scipio> who here think's K's mom is "in the dark" as much as K THINKS she is?
<nick_scipio> Melissa knows what's going on... ;-)
<imawriteralso> not me
<nick_scipio> next Q?
<strickland83> Even the threesome?
<steyaert> Three left after this one. Send in more questions if you have them...
<steyaert> Dai: We know you had to work on the preambles after the division to B3 and B4. Did you write them already or will you leave it to when the time comes?
<nick_scipio> (Strick: read what Melissa said.)
<dfwhobbyist> After cleaning Paul up? Not me!
<tiganese> how in the dark is the father, not as much as we think he is is my thought
<nick_scipio> Dai: I have the B4 pre-amble written... it used to be the B3 preamble...
<nick_scipio> I'm working (in my head) on the B3 pre-amble.
<nick_scipio> (tig: SSC#1)
<nick_scipio> next Q?
<steyaert> Strickland: Have you given any more thought lately to a crossover story with Rev. Cottom Mather?
<mizpattay> Not a preface or an introduction, but a preamble, like the Constitution. Right, Nick?
<nick_scipio> Strick: I've already sent a goodly-sized e-mail to the Right Reverend...
<nick_scipio> (MP, yes)
<nick_scipio> Strick: I won't spoil the Rev's fun, but you'll see something soon enough.
<nick_scipio> I'm sure the Rev would approve me saying: RSC#1... ;-)
<tphile2> melissa knows EVERYTHING?
<nick_scipio> what do you think, tphile?
<dai_wakizashi> clarification please if possible...
<nick_scipio> (that's as much as you're going to get out of me on what Melissa knows... SSC#2)
<dai_wakizashi> melissa knows P and G P and K but K and g also?
<mizpattay> Naw, she can't know EVERYTHING, but she knows enough, I'm sure.
<nick_scipio> God, I'm an evil bastard... SSC#2... ;-)
<nick_scipio> next Q?
<mizpattay> I can second that emotion.
<steyaert> Dai: What do you expect for responses when you kill one of your characters? Especially if it is one of the favorites?
<mizpattay> I'm a dummy - what does TERB stand for?
<nick_scipio> Hate mail. ;-)
<nick_scipio> (The Evil Rat Bastard)
<mizpattay> Oh yeah.
<nick_scipio> Dai, I expect to get hate mail...
<nick_scipio> But I'm looking forward to it...
<mizpattay> And I expect to have to throw ice on Nick, so he won't get nasty.
<nick_scipio> it means I've done my job right... and you really CARE about the characters.
<strickland83> As you said before, won't we expect it by that time?
<nick_scipio> yes, I think you'll expect it...
<nick_scipio> but you'd be surprised how much people will invest in a character...
<mizpattay> yes dear.
<nick_scipio> someone you love is going to die...
<nick_scipio> I love them too...
<mizpattay> Oh, god, not them!
<nick_scipio> but I'm going to stay true to the story. ;-)
<nick_scipio> next Q?
<dai_wakizashi> <dai is looking at the joss sticks he had in the newly arrive dpackage, wondering if they willget any use> hope not!
<steyaert> Dai: Do we get to hear why SC3 and SC4 and the interesting discussion between Miz Pattay and you on the descision to split the book?
<nick_scipio> no, sorry.
<mizpattay> Uh oh.
<nick_scipio> the discussion to split B3 into B3/B4 involved things you don't know yet...
<mizpattay> It's classified.
<nick_scipio> a very close circle of friends and I discussed it.
<steyaert> I think the question was after it was all done....
<dai_wakizashi> not even after sc is finsihed (sc4 end)
<mizpattay> Need to know and all that.
<nick_scipio> it was something like 5 people, total.
<nick_scipio> after B4 is done, Dai, it won't matter... but you're welcome to ask me then. ;-)
<mizpattay> Hey - how did I get to be a moderator? Wow - I'm important!
<mizpattay> I just noticed!
<nick_scipio> really, it was more technical and perception than anything else.
<nick_scipio> next Q?
<steyaert> Leja: Are you thinking of publishing a story in a new universe? (Not SC nor JC)
<nick_scipio> Leja: yes.
<nick_scipio> I've got too many story ideas floating around...
<nick_scipio> I'm just not in the mood to write them right now...
<nick_scipio> But I'll get around to it.
<mizpattay> His brain is very full of things. Very full.
<nick_scipio> My "Lara" story is in a new universe...
<dai_wakizashi> are you living on a different planet... 36 0r 48 hr day span? ;-)
<nick_scipio> and I've got a SMOKIN' story for the next in that series... ;-)
<nick_scipio> no, Dai, unfortunately, I'm not...
<dfwhobbyist> Anything outside of erotica, like a real book?
<dai_wakizashi> darn. I was looking for change of scenery.. with all the time management issues I am facing
<dai_wakizashi> oh well
<mizpattay> THIS IS A REAL BOOK!
<nick_scipio> the next story in the Mike Logan universe involves a great "escort," a whacko couple, and a trip to Atlantic City... ;-)
<nick_scipio> dfw: yes.
<steyaert> I think that answered one of the queue questions:
<steyaert> Tphile: Does the Mat Logan stories deal with a new girl each time or build on the first one?
<imawriteralso> FYI: Ark 7 Fla 3 middle of 2nd
<nick_scipio> like I said earlier, I WILL be a pro writer someday...
<mizpattay> Yes he will!
<nick_scipio> tphile: Mike Logan will deal with a new girl each time, mostly.
<mizpattay> Mike Logan's a playa?
<nick_scipio> he's a BIG DICK playa...
<mizpattay> My favorite!
<nick_scipio> next Q?
<tiganese> stey, i have a q, but the pm doen't work for me, can you que me in for a time to ask it?
<tphile2> thats cool I didn't care for the first one much
<steyaert> Go for it Tig.
<nick_scipio> go for it, tig.
<tiganese> Besides reading On Writing do you have any advise for new writhers
<nick_scipio> Read a LOT.
<nick_scipio> and write.
<nick_scipio> if you're not writing, you're not a writer.
<mizpattay> And edit, too!
<mizpattay> It helps you learn.
<nick_scipio> if you WANT to write, and be a writer, you've got to write.
<tphile2> steal good ideas as much as possible ;)
<nick_scipio> that's a good one too, tphile...
<nick_scipio> Good authors borrow, great authors steal.
<tphile2> its all in the skill of recycling
<nick_scipio> King covers it better than I can, tho, tig...
<imawriteralso> Premise: there are no new stories, only new settings and characters?
<nick_scipio> really, the book in soft-cover is less than $10...
<nick_scipio> it's a REALLY good read, and very "on target"
<nick_scipio> other quick advice...
<tphile2> and do research know as much as possible about the subject
<nick_scipio> trust your characters, don't over-think the story, read a lot, know your grammar, etc.
<nick_scipio> tphile, that's a subtle trap...
<nick_scipio> know as much about your CHARACTERS
<gmwylie85260> <nods to mizpatty> amen on editing
<dai_wakizashi> how can you think as different characters?
<tphile2> them too
<darkvision29> "To steal the works of one is plagiarism ... To steal the works of many is research"
<nick_scipio> Dai, I've been playing role-playing games for almost 20 years... I just do it...
<dai_wakizashi> the mental gear switching I mean
<nick_scipio> how do you develop an argument?
<mizpattay> There are LOTS of people in Nick's head.
<nick_scipio> you think about both sides...
<nick_scipio> you think about what you'd do if you knew THIS, or thought THAT...
<nick_scipio> and the THIS and THAT are different for each character.
<tphile2> but a reader can usually tell when a writer is unfamiliar with the subject and its distracting
<nick_scipio> unfortunately, to a degree, writing IS art and raw talent...
<dai_wakizashi> i'm only a chess player, that always 2 people me and my opponent and I can read my oponent most of the time. never been in multi character games
<nick_scipio> it's skill too, but it just takes a certain... something.
<gmwylie85260> schizophrenia comes to mind
<nick_scipio> tphile: true...King advises, "write the truth"
<nick_scipio> if you don't know "the truth," don't write it...
<gmwylie85260> oopsie, left off the :)
<tiganese> I would think empathy more than schizophrenia
<nick_scipio> maybe a little of both? ;-)
<steyaert> Damn, so much for me doing my math homework. :))
<mizpattay> And a vivid imagination! I know about that!
<gmwylie85260> I was thinking of hearing multiple voices in your head
<nick_scipio> not really...
<nick_scipio> I hear one voice at a time, but I switch rapidly.
<gmwylie85260> ah, a serial rather than parallel schizo ;)
<nick_scipio> I can't explain it... but I've been telling stories all my life... and it just "comes" to me. :-)
<nick_scipio> LOL, Gina... yes.
<nick_scipio> next Q?
<steyaert> Strickland: Will books 3 and 4 focus primarily on the college y ears or will we see a lot about Paul's life between College and the present?
<nick_scipio> another good Q...
<nick_scipio> 3 and 4 will focus on college...
<nick_scipio> they've always posed a problem for me...
<mizpattay> How long will Paul be in college?
<nick_scipio> I've known (all along) that B3 (now B3/B4) will be a "college" book..
<nick_scipio> so I was reluctant to name the story "Summer Camp"
<nick_scipio> because I KNEW we'd get away from that for the last book (now two)
<imawriteralso> Architecture is usually 5 years, miz pattay
<dai_wakizashi> and med?
<mizpattay> Oh - I thought it would take longer than that.
<nick_scipio> So B3/B4 will be SC in spirit, but not as much time will be spent at The Pines.
<imawriteralso> med is 4+3+3 or more
<steyaert> I think medical school is 8 with residency.
<dai_wakizashi> medical school or psych what kendall and gina studies. how long'
<imawriteralso> some residencies are 5 years--radiology for example
<nick_scipio> 4 undergrad, 3 med school, 3-4 intern/residency
<mizpattay> I done never been to college, so I dunno how that stuff goes.
<nick_scipio> and if you become really specialized in med, it could be a 5-year residency
<nick_scipio> but that's usually actually a 3-year residency and a 1-2 year "fellowship"
<nick_scipio> does that answer your Q, Strickland?
<nick_scipio> about 10 more minutes...
<nick_scipio> final Qs?
<strickland83> Yes. Thanks.
<steyaert> Two in the queue.
<steyaert> Tphile: Do you use dice when plotting/writing? ;)
<nick_scipio> No, but have I ever told you about my dice fetish?
<nick_scipio> seriously? have I mentioned that?
<tiganese> i dont think so
<nick_scipio> I think I literally have a couple hundred dice...
<dai_wakizashi> do u by any chance have the dice with more than 6 faces
<steyaert> That's not enough for a "real" ROLL player....
<tiganese> I have one myself, almost 500, including a full set of brass and one of platinum
<steyaert> Definitely. Most require 20 siders.
<steyaert> Again, two in the queue:
<steyaert> Leja: What do you expect from your editor? (MizPattay, you can give your insight, too.) :)
<nick_scipio> well, I have about 60 that I ACTIVELY play with
<gmwylie85260> editors :)
<tphile2> Nick I think we know way too much about your other fetishes already ;P
<nick_scipio> I expect her to catch all my problems...
<mizpattay> Well, I try.
<dai_wakizashi> not stds i hope
<nick_scipio> she doesn't, and CAN'T, but she does an awfully good job catching most of them...
<nick_scipio> she also tells me when things aren't realistic, or gives me insight to the time...
<mizpattay> Doh! Seriously, I try to give it as much as I can.
<tphile2> So not much Susan anymore in Books 3 and 4? That blows
<nick_scipio> Leja: post that Q in the Forum, I'm sure MizP and I would love to expound upon that...
<nick_scipio> but there's also a good post in the ASSTR/ASSM authors group, on Yahoo...
<dfwhobbyist> Have you and MizP met in person?
<dai_wakizashi> agree tp...
<mizpattay> No - but we talk a lot.
<nick_scipio> she'l be there, tphile...
<nick_scipio> but not as much, you're right.
<nick_scipio> last q?
<steyaert> Strickland: Will any other Summer Camp regulars appear outside of The Camp?
<nick_scipio> In the Rev's stories...
<nick_scipio> but, RSC#1... ;-)
<mizpattay> Aw, cool! The Rev CM? Allright!
<strickland83> Not the answer I expected.
<nick_scipio> he's a good friend of mine and a good writer...
<tphile2> Nick then that not only blows but it sucks too ;P
<nick_scipio> about 2 minutes...
<nick_scipio> any final pressing Qs?
<mizpattay> Shit - I wish I hadn't missed so much!
<nick_scipio> (I think Dai will have a log)
<steyaert> Do you want me to save the questions that I moderated? Would it help something?
<nick_scipio> <crosses fingers>
<mizpattay> Good - thanks.
<dai_wakizashi> yep stey
<darkvision29> Thanks for the insite and the chat Nick
<mizpattay> Do ya, Dai?
<nick_scipio> give me the last Qs you have, terry...
<dfwhobbyist> Will you do this again after SCB3?
<nick_scipio> no new ones, tho, please.
<steyaert> That's it that people have me.
<dai_wakizashi> i'm going to work on it
<gmwylie85260> thanks, Nick
<tphile2> but no doubt Susan will make an appearance in the epilog
<nick_scipio> SSC#1, tphile
<bigbear422> as i missed most of this one will there be another chat
<nick_scipio> I've had fun...
<mizpattay> Thank you for everything, Nick. You're the greatest, and a wonderful friend. He's a great guy, everyone. Trust me.
<dai_wakizashi> tp ssisssh...
<strickland83> Thanks, Nick for doing this. Your fans really appreciate it. And thanks to everyone who participated.
<dai_wakizashi> thx nick. have good time
<nick_scipio> I had fun...
<nick_scipio> bigbear... hopefully, Dai will have a log.
<leja_azerty> thanks nick
<nick_scipio> and I think we can do this every once in a while...
<bigbear422> cool thanks ias i am a new fan
<mizpattay> I was going to suggest that.
<nick_scipio> on that note...
<steyaert> Yes, thanks Nick. Questions on their way.
<nick_scipio> (Thanks, Terry).
<mizpattay> Bye y'all.
<nick_scipio> I really appreciate you all taking the time to be here today.
<gmwylie85260> thank you too terry
<leja_azerty> this thaks period ;p
<nick_scipio> and, for taking the time to read the stories and to comment.
<nick_scipio> I say this all the time, but I really mean it: thank you all for reading.
<tphile2> theres no reason this cannot be a regular weekend chat
<gmwylie85260> thank you for writing!
<nick_scipio> (for me, there is, tphile... sorry)
<steyaert> Thank you for writing Nick.
<bigbear422> only cause you bring life to the story and characters
<nick_scipio> no reason you all can't get together on a regular basis, tho...
<nick_scipio> and I can pop in if I have time.
<mizpattay> That's a great idea!
<gmwylie85260> yes! come to the chat room!!! Nice place, nice people!!!
<nick_scipio> but now, I do have to go...
<mizpattay> I'll be around - and Nick - I promise I won't give anything away.
<tphile2> np nick fans of all kinds get together for chats all the time
<dai_wakizashi> pta meeting you mean ? ;-)
<nick_scipio> thanks again...
<steyaert> Have a great morning, evening or night wherever you may all be....
<nick_scipio> and I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.
<mizpattay> Ta ta!
<tphile2> nick its not 5pm yet
<nick_scipio> TTY'all Later.
<mizpattay> Yes it is!
<tphile2> not in California
<bigbear422> 2pm on west coast
<mizpattay> Yeah, but dude - Nick and I are on the East Coast.
<leja_azerty> 11pm in my time line
<darkvision29> Great Chat! Thanks all.
<dai_wakizashi> i think tery uou should close this off officially so i can save my log ! ;-)
<mizpattay> We could just keep chatting, couldn't we?
<bigbear422> we all have crosses to bear lol
<tphile2> so is the log gonna be posted to the forum?
<gmwylie85260> we can keeip chatting!! Yes!
<mizpattay> Allrighty then!
<gmwylie85260> talking to editors is *good* for writers!
<bigbear422> i have a ? for dark vision
<mizpattay> And that is?
<tphile2> sure pattay now that nicks gone you can tell us who died ;)
end of chat session
Active participants (people who speak at least once):
nick_scipio: 509 posts
dai_wakizashi: 94 posts
steyaert: 69 posts
tphile2: 62 posts
mizpattay: 49 posts
tiganese: 34 posts
gmwylie85260: 23 posts
strickland83: 10 posts
darkvision29: 9 posts
bigbear422: 6 posts
dfwhobbyist: 6 posts
imawriteralso: 6 posts
leja_azerty: 6 posts
pics5222: 5 posts